Counting 3s and 2s

I’ve been listening to a lot of Meshuggah recently, specifically the song “Clockworks.” I couldn’t figure out the time signature so I looked for a YouTube video to explain it and found this useful video.

I recommend listening to the song and watching the video because it’s interesting and helpful to learn to count more complicated odd meter groupings, but this post is about how to practice counting groups of 3 and 2.

What are odd meters?

Odd meters are time signatures (meters) that have an odd number of beats. Odd meters like 7/8 and 5/8 can be counted in different ways because they have an odd number of beats. Often musicians will divide the measures into groupings of three and two eighth notes. It’s useful to remember that the eighth note grouping changes, but the speed of the eighth notes doesn’t change. This will feel like having different lengths of quarter notes. Some beats will feel like dotted quarters and others will feel like regular quarter notes.

And when dividing up odd meters into groups of three’s and two’s musicians will often just count up to three or two, rather than counting up to five or seven. This is to help make counting a little easier, especially with faster tempos. It also will help a lot more when getting into more complicated odd meters like 11/8, 13/8, or 15/16. It can help with counting meters like 8/8, 12/8, or 9/8 even though they may not be “odd” meters.

Above is one way to count 5/8. The beats are divided into a group of two and a group of three. Musicians would say this as “2 + 3” and will count it as “1 2 1 2 3 / 1 2 1 2 3″, with the bold “1s” being strong beats. Below is the other way to count 5/8, which is “3 + 2” which would be counted as “1 2 3 1 2 / 1 2 3 1 2.”

7/8 has three different ways that it can be divided up. Below is “2 + 2 + 3”, which would be counted as “1 2 1 2 1 2 3 / 1 2 1 2 1 2 3″, with the bold “1s” being strong beats.

Below are the other two ways that 7/8 can be divided up. They’re “2 + 3 + 2” which will be counted as “1 2 1 2 3 1 2 / 1 2 1 2 3 1 2″ and “3 + 2 + 2” which is counted as “1 2 3 1 2 1 2 / 1 2 3 1 2 1 2.”

Getting used to these five different odd meter divisions is a great start to learning how to count odd meters. The better you get at counting these the easier it will be to learn other odd meters.

At first counting these will feel strange because the changing feel of the beat. It may also feel like all of them end up being the same, but they have very different rhythmic feels in actual music. One thing that can help with this is by emphasizing the first beat much more than the others.

Short beats vs. long beats

Eventually the goal is to be able to feel the beats as “long” and “short” beats, rather than having to count all of the “2s” and “3s.” This will happen with practice and time, but it will take time and practice and patience because the grooves that are played in odd meters are different than 4/4 and 3/4 grooves.

I personally wouldn’t count using three’s and two’s unless I was learning a new meter. After that initial read through I’d change it to “ta-ka-ta” for a group of three and “ta-ka” for a group of two. Those syllables are slightly easier for me than counting numbers the whole time. And it produces the same effect of counting the correct number of groups.

If there are syllables that make this easier for you then feel free to count them that way too. Other syllables I’ve heard used are “ta-di” for a group of two and “ta-ki-da” for a group of three. But make sure that those syllables are keeping a constant 8th note, because one problem I see students make when learning to count odd meters is they count the group of three as a triplet; speeding it up to fit it in the same amount of time as the group of two. That’s not the same rhythm. These rhythms should feel uneven. Some of the beats are longer than other beats.

Once you’re comfortable with those meters watch the two videos above to get an idea of some even more complicated odd meters and groupings of two’s and three’s.

ISJ